>> some people they should interview, the pope or vice president biden or miley cyrus. those are good ones. "the morning joe" starts right no

now. >> i'm excited. we got a look at one of the hate witches. >> they say ignorance is blitz. right, joe? that may have applied to the mcdonald's mcrib sandwich. a photo taken by a mcdonald's employee of a mcrib. >> sweet jesus. >> is there no shame? >> mcdonald's says the patty is formed in the shape of traditional ribs. they flash freeze the meat before sending it out to the restaurants. >> that is gross. >> maybe you are gross. there is nothing of a mcrib because it appears to be made of sickly et. i have always been a firm believer that the best food raises more questions than it answers. if anything, this photo makes me want the thing even more because it only adds to the great american mystery that is the mcrib. for decades the elusive mcrib has appeared and disappeared on mcmenus with little warning like

a meat brigadoon. what brings it out of hiding, full moons, a surplus of slauths house floor scrapings? >> there you go, good morning, everyone, it is wednesday, december 4th and what are we locking at? look at that, guys. it is beautiful. >> the night. tonight is the night. >> is it really, the lighting, everything? >> 7:00. >> you will be there, willie? >> i will be on my couch. i am not hosting it. i will be watching. >> you will be somewhere. >> i was going to take you to the tree lighting. >> i think you should come. why don't you join me? >> it's a lot of people. >> and joe. are you not a people person? >> a busy time around here. >> with us on site, we have the national affairs editor john

heilman. >> held plo. >> i know. >> that suggests maybe not doing that again. mike barnacle is with us as well. i had the most wonderful evening last night. did we get -- no, i did not have the mcrib. i don't have photos. of course, you don't, lorrial, paris, usa. the most amazing event ever. we are going to do it next 84 on the show, a five he day rollout. it will be fantastic. i loved it. >> cool pants. >> all i had. all i had. good will and -- >> can i say something? you look a little more even today. >> that matches the sherbet pants. that is from the womens to watch event i did yesterday. it was all ability women. >> equal money for a guy. >> i love it when you are late. >> once a month. you foe. he gets a splinter and he's out

for a season. >> it's going to be good for them. >> he is. >> what another mercenary on board? >> he is what they need. he is going to have several good years for them. >> do you think so? >> i think so. >> seriously. >> imagine the backfields. >> did you just say that? >> did he just say that? i was talking about two important events pertaining to women. you sit down and start blurting out sports stuff. >> it's reality. >> it will be a part of your world. >> amazing how quick the red sox are covering that. >> ridiculous. >> anybody that would go through the season that boston just went through never deserves to wear a red sox uniform. i hope he has fun, in hell. so what did you do last night? >> i was at the lorrial paris

usa event. it was incredible. we are going to do it next year, we will partner up. five days, two honoree, diana keyton was there. >> that's huge. >> it was such an honor. >> they have power? empower women there? >> women were making a difference in our society. a hospice nurse. a woman who is helping with mental health issues with kids across the country. i mean the most amazing stories. they added glamour it to. they shined the light on people really making a difference. i can't wait until next 84, it's the 10th year anniversary. >> go out there. it it would be great there. >> how much will they pay him? >> 153. more if he stay stays. >> think of how stupid that sounds compared to what i'm saying, seriously. somebody who hits a ball with a bat is getting all that money. >> i know, i feel bald? you should.

>>. >> so that's great. that was an amazing event? >> i want to thank jackie kelly for inviteing me. >> that's amazing. we should get her on the show. >> she is coming to visit a few times. we will get some great stuff on this show. >> so this guy was asleep. nodded off. he's in a daze? >> that is an interesting angle, too. we will start with detroit. just on that, we will talk about the train derail. . there was a shift change. the guy after working years on one shift was put on a different shift and left at a different time in the morning. it might have played a big role in this. there are so many questions and also an impact on shift workers in terms of their body clocks how important that is consider when making changes. >> another system that automatically slows it down, whether next e mechanical error or error of the person.

>> some of these trains have alarms that literally put on the brake when they cannot get a reaction from the engineer. >> that is and has been available for more than a few years. mike has one of those in his car, right? >> i have one in my wife. >>let start with detroit. the motor city has officially gone bust. a judge ruled it is unable to pay it's 18 billion if debt. there is a march 1st deadline for the city's reorganization plan to be filed. the mortgages manager is expected to have a first draft next month. outgoing mayor dave bing says it's a chance to put the city on new course. >> we now have to fight. if we have a future as far as our children and grandchildren are concerned, we have to fix the problem now. we can't continue to kick that

can down the road and not make tough decisions. >> those tough decisions, the judge ruled billions in pensions can be cut even though michigan's constitution prohibits cuts to pensionings. the city's largest employee union fwoild an appeal. the ruling could have implications across the country for retirees already struggling to make ends meet. >> we have an american dream that if you work long and you did the right thing, that you would end up being able to live comfort annual. what he's done now, i don't even know how i'm going to do this after january. it's already the fat guy has to sit around and make up my mind whether to take my medicine or eat. what do they want me to do now? >> detroit is now the largest public bankruptcy in u.s. history. >> can we just point out to people there is something

tragically sad and obscene about that ruling where jefferson racings of incompetent political people have driven that city into bankruptcy and the people paying the ultimate price are public employees who legitimately signed and agreed to pension deals that can now be taken away from them. >> we are not talking a lot of money individually, an average of 1,800 to $2,000 in pensions. they will have that reduced, awful. >> it's a big ruling by this federal judge. pensions are protected under the state constitution in michigan. this judge said they're not protected under bankruptcies. so that could serve as some precedent in other places. as mike said, if you become a cop, a fire fighter or a sanitation worker, you enter no a deal with an often dangerous job with the understanding you will be taken care of on the back end. there were big problems. they had to do something in detroit. but those people aren't the ones

that should be hurt by it. >> speaking of pensions, lawmakers narrowly passed sweeping reforms, which include raising retirement ages and changes to cost of living increases. supporters say the move will eliminate a $100 billion pension shortfall over the next 30 years. democratic governor pat quinn says he will sign the measure. labor unions and other opponents are vowing to fight the overhaul. they say any changes violate the state's constitution, which prohibits reducing benefits. >> detroit can go back 15, 20 years and do the things with their pensions that chris christie did in new jersey, scott walker did in wisconsin. you know, what's happening, pat queen will seen the bill in

illinois people go out scream and yelp. i understand they want to get the best deal they get. they should goeshlt for the absolute best deal they should get but you ask where it came from, unions that push politicians to overpromise benefits they couldn't pay for in exchange for votes and money and there are some people now and jerry brown i think in california from what i understand is being responsible. governors of both parties are making choices that politicians did not make over the past 20 years. >> there is no doubt the system continues to be enher rently flawed and corrupt. elected politicians receiving company contribution, sitting across the table negotiating for higher pension benefits.

that's just an inherent conflict that ought to be avoided. it hasn't been for generations in every state. >> the league is making promises they can't keep. >> we are negotiating with ourselves. the job with the union is to get as much. the george bush on the other side as a politician is to do the best in the city. >> the new york commuter line where four people were killed in a train wreck over the weekend should be getting back to normal. union representatives, the train's eng 94, william rockefeller says he nodded off while driving. when he came to, he shut down the throttle and tried an emergency braking tech neevenlth the drowsy feeling we sometimes get staring at divider lines when driving.

nbc's tom costello has more. >> a train wreck, five cars on its side. >> reporter: as they released recordings of the transmission, engineer william rockefeller was described by his union as distraught. after years of working on the evening shifts, we started with a new start time at 5:00 a.m. moments after the accident, he told police he zoned out. a friend and co-worker says rockefeller has always been dedicated to safety. >> i don't know how he's coping with the fact that he may have been spinl for the death of four people and 63 people i i can't imagine that. knowing the personality he is. >> that will weigh on him for the rest of his life. >> reporter: engineer rockefeller was in a second day of then hours. the question for the ntsb, was he asleep or sleep deprived.

>> there is every indication he had time to get full recovery of sleep ro. it shows 18 minutes the train had picked up tremendous speed. by the time it was supposed to slow from 70 down to 30 miles per hour to make a dramatic left turn, the train was moving at 82 miles per hour. at that point the engine power suddenly dropped to idle and the engineer slammed on the brakes. but it was all too late. the train came to rest just inches from the water. david wrangle who teaches train engineering says there is no steering the commuter train t. sole engineer on board controls speed and brakes and the mon monotony can pose a risk. >> bus of the going over that route you sometimes become complacent, anesthetized to what you are seeing there. sometimes you could possibly zone out. >> but there is no unwells in the cab to help an engineer in trouble or asleep.

>> nbc's tom costello with that report. the new york times reports some metro north planes have what are called alerters. they basically set off an alarm if they don't detect activity from the engineer. when they go off, the eng fear has 15 seconds to respond. if he doesn't respond if time the brakes come on automatically. the train that derailed did not have that technology. >> so this daily news shot, what is the from a camera inside? >> that's him on the stretcher afterwards. they caught up with him in a blink or something. >> that's sad. >> my god. to the post. >> that's america at its worst. >> that's america at its worse. thegys on the brock lynn bridge is about to kill himself.

she takes a selfie to send her friend, hey, look at the dude up under the brock lynn bridge. i'm going to instagram this. the cops actually saved the guy up there from what i understand. >> by the nypd and the fire department? >> it's better than a selfie. >> we think she knew what was happening up there. >> let's see. see if there is an article. >> there is one inside. >> what you got, willie? >> more enfor the first. >> we have some horrifying selfies. close that up. >> yeah. >> is there more we need to know about.

>> he's better than what we got. >> i want to do obama care, alex, why don't you want to do it? >> do it. here, you got good news on obama care. we got 70 years before the next story comes. >> it's next. the rebought of obama care comes as the president will talk about the benefit of this health care law. yesterday, president obama defended the affordable care act and suggested if republicans have better ideas they should bring them to the stable. >> the bottom line is this law is working and will get started with the exchanges, with the marketplaces, so we're not going to walk away from it. if i've got to fight another three years to make sure this law works, then that's what i will do. i have always said, i will work with anybody to implement and improve this law effectively you got good ideas, bring them to

me. let's go. but we're not repealing it as long as i'm president. i want to make that clear. >> you know, if what the president said is introduce. then that's a marked change since the first time the health care law went through. the republicans had scores of amendments that harry reid killed. never let him discuss it on the floor. never got a vote on the floor, so if the president now wants to work with republicans as well as democratsed on on this health care bill, who knows, maybe we can move forward and develop a comprehensive plan that works for all americans. >> so hhs officials announced a surge of web traffic to healthcare.gov saying more than a million people visited the site on monday and former president bill clinton also spoke about the law yesterday saying its legacy will not be impacted as long as its flaws

are fixed. >> if the computer problems are all fixed and it's up and running and healthy in the next several weeks, i this i that the damage will be minimal. when problem passed a bill to provide drug cover annual to senior citizens under the medicare program, it was more unpopular when it was passed and there were lots of problems in the beginning with the computers. >> so the effects would be a men mum? >> if it's fixed, that would be right. if it's worked through, i think in four or five months, people will be talking about it entirely differently and no one will want to repeal this law. they want it to work. >> you remember in 2004 when medicare part d passed, we had this same coverage and all because it was just so bad and they had the same problem, george bush had press

conferences and they were -- oh, wait, that didn't happen. that's right, democrats are making that up. >> okay. >> the only thing involved in medicare part d is who was going to pay for it. >> the only thing is that the republicans that passed a $7 trillion drug benefit plan without a single, paying for a single dime along with the democrats, they held the vote up three weeks that's all i remember. they don't have to make stories up. i know some of them like to do that. oh, medicare part d was just as bad. >> you sound like bill clinton. >> it wasn't. it said, stop insulting us. >> look at how smart this is. the president will be doing a town hall with chris matthews live i believe at marine university. tomorrow. they're trying. the setting is interesting. because, obviously, the

president is appealing to those young people who they want signed up four. >> they need them. >> i think that's a great idea for the president. chris matthews. >> we will be watching. for all of his viewers. i wonder if they moved that show. they used to have it at 2:45. >> watted down. now. >> it was like regis. >> it's on fire. >> the millionaire. they did it every night. >> vint annual matthews. we get it -- vintage matthews. we get it every night. coming up on "morning joe," house whip tom cole joins us and zeke emanuel. maybe zeke will ask his brother to call me one day. he only calls when you call. you know what i mean?

a phone call and some shoeles. we'll talk to the co-founder of aol steve case and from columbia, juan manuel santos. first here's bill kierans. oh. >> hey. >> ho. >> is that real? >> that is the comcast. >> isn't that a screen behind him. are you lying? >> good morning. what did you say? >>. >> are you really in front of the tree? >> no, it's a beautiful tree. >> can you walk up and touch it? >> good god. this will go on forever. >> you guys set this up to me on a tee, i want to show you what the trees looked leak going back to 1934 and in 1937 during the depression. look at that tree. this tree evolved into a huge spectacle here. tonight at 8:00 the tree

lighting will gen, the ceremony and the performers will be here the forecast could not be better. 50 degrees. cloudy, warm. no problems with the wind. congratulations on that forecast for the big event tonight. in the mid-west, a different story tonight. we got travel trouble all over the place. heavy snow is developing. the morning rush hour in minneapolis should be having heavy snow, cold temperatures. the snow is moving closer to the denver area. we are expecting a snowstorm as we go through the afternoon hours. possibility of 6 to 12 inches of snow. so the forecast. this is a little snowstorm and then a huge arctic plunge right behind it. watch the temperatures. tomorrow's high in denver is 7. dallas, you will be in the 60s, drop into the 40s. by the time we get to friday, dallas will be 32. you will be scraping ice in the morning. chicago, st. louis, kansas city, all those areas in between will be dealing with the next arctic blast. we are talking record cold temperatures in the areas of the northern plains. the folks are hardy.

montana, through the rockies. eventually, this mess does make it to the east coast. mostly as rain. friday will be difficult in the ohio valley with travel. rain will move to the eastern seabird by the time we get to friday and saturday, we will exit for cold weekend. >> that arctic blast moves coast to coast. tonight the tree lighting at 30 rock. you are watching "morning joe.".

. >> it's time now to take a look at the morning papers. the "wall street journal." vice president joe biden is in chosen this morning trying to smooth over growing tensions in the region. ability an hour ago, he held a meeting with chosen's president, who was supposed to focus on

trade. >> that has been overshadowed sense china expanded its airspace into territory disputed by japan. >> this is a san francisco chronicle. they are on pace for its best sales year sense 2007. great news. experts seized 15 million vehicles in october. chrysler is leading the pack. their sales are up 16%. >> new york teams. news week announced it will return to print early next year after ending publication last year. the magazine is struggling to address to the digital age and was the kwon verted to an online publication by its prior owner the daily boast. ibt media purchased newswoke in august to pay for the move. it hopes to expand circulation to 100,000 readers during its first year back on shelves. >> and the usa today sales for sony's play station 4 topped 2 million world wide andrew

scarborough. after three weeks on the market in north america the gaming console is now selling in 32 other countries and it's going to hit the shelves in japan early next 84. in its first day alone, sony sold more than 1 million units making it the company's fastest selling console every. >> new york post, billy joel and madison square garden have announced that the music icon will play a series of monthly concerts at the historic venue for as much as there is demand. the vegas style residency which kicks off january 27ing will be the first in history for both the garden and joel. the first four shows are already sold out. joel has played at the garden a total of 46 times. >> wow. >> dating back to 1978. >> i'm getting a lot of credit here for how good i'm supposed to be, but i think a good deal of it is from the audience that comes to the garden. they're a great audience.

if you have a great audience, you usually give a better show. >> that's going to be exciting. willie geist. time for politico. >> all right. let's go down to d.c. t. chief white house correspondent for politico is mike allen. he has to look at the play book. good morning. >> good morning. >> we are discussing this set you have up on your site. scott brown the former massachusetts senator ramping up the spec laegs over -- speculation over one of the seats. he is running an op-ed criticizing obama care writing in part, hypocrisy and double standard are two things that disgust and infurriate all americans regardless of where they fall on the ideological spectrum. mike, is he getting into this race? >> he is making all the moves. republicans think this is a juicy race, former senator bob smith who was from new hampshire moving back from plachlt to look at the race. they want to run across democrat jean shaheen. his twitter handle changed from

scott brown ma to send scott brown. you pointed out he is jumping on the republicans obama care issue, pointing out ten of the state's 26 hospitals would not be available on the exchange that's in that state. he's got that dinner coming up december 19th and republicans think he would be a very attractive candidate. people say, well, is he just trying to ramp up speculation to help his law firm? if that's what it's for, he's going to a lot of trouble. >> mike barnacle, what's the feel up in massachusetts, new hampshire, about scott brown jumping over a state? >> well, as i understand former senator brown had a summer home in new hampshire for many years. senator shaheen and her husband billy shaheen have been a part of that political fab breck. i would expect if he does choose to run that senator shaheen will boat him. >> well, that op-ed he wrote is an early shot. another piece you have up there this morning, president obama

juggling legislative issues right now. republicans, though, going back after health care as we head into 2014. that's really where the focus is going to be for his opponents, isn't it? >> sure s. willie the white house got more excited reaction from liberals, the left democrats and maybe they expected earlier this week when they said on "morning joe" that every day this month up until the deadline that the president was going to be focusing on health care. people got very excited about it. the supporters loved it. but the president has a lot else on his plate. this is a multi-tasking month today. the president is talking about income in equality at 11:15. he will be talking about immigration he has foreign policy and heads up to hawaii at the end of the month. the president has a ton going on t. supporters think there is good news, maybe the website is

steadying now want more of the president every day. >> obviously, the republicans will not let up despite they may be setting up politicos. mike, thanks, so much. >> have a good day, will. >> coming up, jacoby els berry to the yankees. where does that leave robinson cano who wants serious cash. we have possible suitors in sports. [ music playing ] .

>> well, the little engine that could keeps chugging along the bronx. >> i don't know how they do it. >> jacoby elsberry leaving fenway, elsberry reportedly agreed to a seven year $153 million year, an option for an eighth year. the speedy fielder giving a good glove. elsbury had batted .298 last year. he's missed a lot of games. the yankees scheduled to

introduce their other beg signing, brian mccann, the catcher. tomorrow. elsbury could joan him if he passes that physical. >> it will be good for the yankees. tv ratings down, ticket sales in general down. they need some juice. they will have a terrific outfielder now. brett gardner. brian mccann. beg addition to the new york yankees. strong 2nd place finish next year for you guys. >> one can only hope. >> we need to get the lab results from the physical. it will be unique. >> it was major league baseball. >> at the speed of light last night red sox nation turned on their beloved jacoby like that. awful. so the question is what happens to robbie cano? does this mean he leaves? he has come out as a major

player. he reportedly is asking for more than $300 million. the yankees shying away from that number. er that not going to $200 million. they are trying to boost the slumping attendance. you go, really, you want to go play for the mariners and get lost or here? >> if you are robinson cano you don't sign with jay zee to play in seattle or beijing. >> why do you keep calling it seattle? >> it's a terrific city, but it's so difficult to get to. it's far away. >> it's one of the coolest cities. >> it is. but it's so far away. it's like a lifetime commitment going there. >> forget th. you are so east coast, it's unbelievable. >> do you know that there is a break through in a pill for men? researchers are trying to conceive a male birth control

pill. they found a way. >> as you approach double digits, children. >> i want you to tell that story again. >> no, i think there is a problem. men won't take this pill. they're so self unaware. >> it's men-o-pause. >> wait a sec. we went from the male birth control pill to the hockey fight to by a jenning. >> here you go. >> they drop gloves and go at i it. >> oh, he hits, oh, there is a suspension. he's got the ref. >> come on, guys.

>> look how much fun they're having. >> atlanta won, that's okay. >> nobody carries. >> what is worse tan getting bunked from a flight? >> i don't know, welly. >> signing jacoby elsbury eight years. >> you can go down that road again if you want to. an entire flight is bumped. the sunday coming home from thanksgiving so that the florida gators basketball game team can get to atlanta. the airline booted the passengers in favor of the basketball team. florida made it to their matchup with yukon just in time to lose in the buzzer boater. they bumped other flights. boy, they had to sit around for a while so the gators can get there. >> can we talk about jacoby elsbury again? >> what about with johnny damon. did the red sox nation forget johnny damon from going to the

-- >> accept it. it's a business. >> i'm saying, why move -- elsbury, i can't believe you. >> mercenaries. >> they are mercenaries. >> let me ask you the question, do you think that -- >> no. >> in a million years. >> i rest my case. coming up next, jonathan strong joins us. >> he has a play. he has the soul. >> soul.

. >> pope frances pay have a secret life. rumor is he sneaks out of the vatican at night might be true.

the pope dresses in regular priests clothes, goes into rome,ed a ministers to the homeless. he won't confirm this, himself. >> oh my god, he's a vigilante vickar coming to the help of those in need. he's the bat-pope. holy, holy, father nation. it all makes so much sense now. he's just like bruce wane. he's a wealthy bachelor who lives alone in a giant mansion and bruce wane has the batmobile while frances has the popemobile. not only that, batman talks to morgan freeman and the pope talks to god, who is also morgan freeman. >> for example past the hour with us. jonathan strong, good to have you on the show. >> good morning. >> we pecked the must red from your piece in the national

review you write this about the feud between senator minority leader mitch mcconnell and the heritage foundation. there are some echoes of the message in your book, joe. in this piece. >> their feud has been one of the most enduring and important clashes within the ranks of the republican party team mcconald thinks he is a shelf destructed showboat whose tactics can load to only disaster. he thinks mcconnell is a tyrant who pushes a mushy agenda behind the scenes. the battle in kentucky is the cull men nation of seven years of on and off connext. it would be a mistake to think the feud is a personal grudge match or a series of retaliatory strikes. he has seemed almost oblivious to how his tactics would be received by colleagues, focused only on the merits of his arguments. pittsburgh connell, mole, is a

calculating man who exercises power efficiently and is unlikely to be swayed by wrath. >> jonathan, mitch mcconyelp has recently made it known, he is going after him and he is going after the members of the party that have been in his words destructive. >> right. yeah. he has kind of launched a scorched earth when that against this one senate conservatives fund. for a lot of people, this is more than that. this is a battle for the soul of the party. at steak you have two sides, the tea party wing has a lot of passion. mcconnell thinks for his party the strategies they want to pursue have been destructive to the party. >> mcconnell, you say it's a battle for the soul of the

ted cruz, rand paul. these guys were all backed by demint back in the day and are kind of pursuing his agenda in the senate even though he's left and has gone to the heritage foundation. >> jim, i have known him for a long time. she a grandof mean. he has been blamed by a great number of republican senators for being responsible for harry reid being the majority leader. the christine o'donnells that he pushed and supported and, of course, you can talk about richard mooredock, todd aiken,

shaern engle. you can talk about all of these candidates that were just unelectable in general elections. they are seen by many republicans in the senate and across the country as basically the creations of jim demint. >> right. now, christine o'donnell is the perfect example of the self-enflicked wound -- self-inflicted wound. murdock, aiken and also sharon engel he never backed in the primary. many people kind of remember it that way. tech nextally, he didn't -- owe technically, he didn't back those candidates. there were a number he backed in 2010 and 2012 didn't make it. you know, the demint people wi note many of the candidates were seen as the establish. candidates also didn't when in those seekleles. and if you do look, if you keep score in terms of which askeds

from the establish him and from the tea party law, i think, you can point at some blame in both direction. it's not as one seemed as it often seems. >> very good. >> jonathan strong, thank you very much. glad to have you on this show. >> boy, this battle is rageing in kentucky right now. >> fascinating on a number of levels. on tomorrow's show, we ask pastor rec warren who will be here for part one of a special two-day appearance with us. "the morning joe" is back in a moment. .

. >> are you one of the great quarterbacks, yet you have done it all without a mistach. are you running out there, to be honest, you look like a succulent baby lamb. >> i guess the tell you the truth, i had no desire to grow facial hair. eli tried to grow one a while back wut much success i have to say. >> i saw that. it did not look good. i played a little in my day. san diego state. team quarterback. i used the checkoff all the time. checkoff. no clue what it meant a.

when i saw someone on that defense move, i just yelled checkoff, checkoff. >> wow. coming up next the republican deputy whip congressman tom cole joins us. here in the studio, john meacham and dr. zeke emmanuel. keep it right here on "morning joe.". ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] this is jim, a man who doesn't stand still. but jim has afib, atrial fibrillation -- an irregular heartbeat, not caused by a heart valve problem.

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. >> for you to suggest something to a sitting president, do you take credit for president barak obama under his war on obama care? >> no, first of all, i think it's important to point out he has actually tried to go beyond what he promised now. in many places he will be able do that. >> you will take credit for na? >> no, i waited for him to say he felt badly about it. the truth is the law that he signed did grandfather in the policies that were in expense when he signed the law. >> very helpful of him. welcome back to "morning joe.". >> doing all he can. >> i can see that. >> he can get that intensity. he looks good in his sherbet pants. he has a chocolate shoe to go

with it. i don't understand it. >> very dutch. >> dutch? >> very protestant. >> very protestant. >> i like it. >> sorry. yes, ma'am. >> you should know, volunteer. >> i got the illusion. >> it's a little. >> go ahead. >> a little lily pulitzer. >> i don't know about that. >> meacham is here and former white housed a very for policy and vice provost for global initiatives at the university of pennsylvania dr. zeke emanuel. zeke, if i called you, would you call me back? >> absolutely. always do. just ask. >> your brother apparently doesn't. he is upset with authority right now. >> didn't he leave his one word message on your machine? talk. go. >> what's that about? >> no, he calls her all time. she, you know what. >> she leaves these two word messages. >> she is being temperamental.

>> you might want for the talk to him. >> today. >> wheel you are here, the reason that obama care continues. >> wheel you are here. wheel you happen to be here. >> by consequence dns. >> get this out of the way. >> now you are taking carry of our phone call issue. >> it's a problem. the president will talk about the economic benefits of this health care law at an event in washington, d.c. yesterday president obama defended the affordable act and suggested if republicans have ideas, they should bring them to the table. >> the bottom lean is, this law is working and will work into the future. we're just getting started with the exchanges. just getting started with the marketplaces. so we're not going to walk away from it. if i've got to fight another three years to make sure this law works. then that's what i will do. i have always said, i will work with anybody to implement and improve this law effectively. >> now you got good ideas, bring

them to me. let's go. but we're not repealing it as long as i'm president. >> hhs officials also announced a surge of web traffic to healthcare.gov saying more than a million people visited the site on monday. former president, well, we'll get to that in just a second. how is the fight doing? >> it's definitely much better. definitely works better. i spent some time surfing on sunday and monday, but it's certainly, it's not perfect. they are well aware that there are more tweaks they have to, do more adjustments. i think the important psychology here has to be this is a work in progress. are you constantly improving it. google has as i said before thousands of people always tweaking its algorithms, it's websites. >> tweaking its algorithms? >> all time. this is the same thing. will you have to change this

constantly. >> that has to be the technology, we are not done in some beg formal way. we are constantly trying to improve it. >> that absolutely has to be the psychology. i leak the announce. they will have a ceo when jeff diamonds goes to the economic council. i think it's very important to get that person on as soon as possible. >> what's that? >> because i think you need someone who is strong, can control it. there is some overlap. it's not just passing the key on the way out the door. that they actually can see how -- >> the ceo from the very beginning. you know who asks that questions, not just anybody, also ceos in support of the president said my god, ed rendell said, just what i said, wifls all of us same. we would have been there six months earlier, looking over people's shoulders, going absolutely crazy making sure when people, when it went right, people could get what they

needed on day one. >> i couldn't agree with you more. i think that was clearly, i mean, in retrospect it was clear it was a problem. in prospect. many of us in 2010 urge that, knew this would be a big problem and knew that you had to have someone with a lot of management experience. >> why doong they didn't do it? >> i don't know. let me ask you, john heilman, yesterday we had an interesting conversation. he said he needs to bring in new people. new blood to the white house as adrift as this one is. jim vander high came on and said that will not happen. >> that itself not who the president is. that's not who the president has been over the past four.5 years, but is there any evidence in all of the studying you have done, the reporting on the president over two presidential elections that he is simply incapable of, you know, making dramatic turns

and bringing in a new group of people? >> i don't know if being capable is the word i would use. he is unencleaned, disencleaned whatever the word. >> why is that? >> i think he has shown demonstrably over the course of his political career he prefers to have a close group of political advisers, a static group. that's his comfort zone. he is not demonstrably ever shown any inclination to go outside, on the couple of occasions, it hasn't worked out very well. bill daily chief of staff. >> cut him off at the knees from day one. >> i'm not litigating that with you. from the president's point of view, he brought bill daily in. it did not work. in the needback, the times when he has reach out his ener circle, it has not worked out very well. for whatever set of reasons. the "wall street journal" reported in the change that's about to happen. a couple of the people they consider to come in are ron mcclain, someone not the inside

of president obama's ener circle, someone who had worked at the white house for joe biden in the early part of the administration. already people are talking about the possibility that he will come back for the second half of the second term. i think jim vander high is right. a massive shakeup, the president is not going to do that. if he did, it would be a massive merge you are from all precedents. >> john, some presidents, some political candidates have the ability to do this. >> now it's ari. >> this is really bad timing. >> put him on speaker. let's see what he says. get the second delay ready. >> do you realize it's 4:00 a.m. in l.a.? >> it's 4:00 a.m. in laechlt. your brother is here, by the way, he says you just don't call. you don't write. okay. your brother loves you. all right, we're hanging up now. talk to you soon. mika will call you. boy. >> he was very ensulled that you

said that he doesn't call you and you know what, he should be because he calls you all the time. >> no. no. >> he calls you up. he says, i will renegotiate the deal. >> for not calling back yesterday. okay. >> ari calls you probably more than like any of his clients. okay. >> more than me. >> i guarn tee you more than me. >> i'm not sure that was true. as you were saying so eloquent. >> i want to ask you, john meacham, ronald reagan was the best example. give me a better example than this. james baker tried to bet his brokens out in 1980 when he was working for george h.w. bush. >> and in '76. >> and in '76 when they said some really tough things about it. came from a wane that said ronald reagan will start world world ii. yet the second he boat bush, he told him, they have run my company. can that just not happen anymore

i besse? >> i guess it's temperamental. president reagan came up through a business where the people around you shifted every sex months because they were shooting movies. >> right. >> so there would be a director, producers, co stars. you would be intensely involved with them then they would leave and you'd make the next call. another team will come in. they should call them the fellows. by the way, for him, jim bakke tore howard bakke early. they were all bakers. >> exactly. by the way, james lieber, ability as close, mike dever said famously near the end of his month. i never once in the 30 yoors i worked for him was not aware of the fact that i was staff. >> oh, absolutely. >> he wasn't tough or mean, but you are right, it was business, all business. >> it was business. >> i think that's them pef. am for him.

george h.w. bush had to get george w. bush to fire john sununu because he couldn't do it. i think obama. my own sense and john has forgotten more about this than i know, my sense is that if you become president when you are 45, 46-years-old and you've had the background obama had personally, you are probably pretty confident in your judgment. >> i would say one other thing after five years. we are now at the five 84 mark, i got the same people. they're tired. >> i think i got a lot of energy. i was pretty tired after two years. i think that's one of the issues which worries me. you know, this is america. you do get tired. >> working is such a trial. that's an issue. >> seven days a week. >> it's a greened none of us can understand. you can't understand it until you walk through those gates. no one can understand it. mark mcken none said it. i think to robert gibbs, he was

walking n. februarys was out. he basically said, welcome to hell. here are the kids. >> remember that evening we had with him when he was talking about the incoming, he literally could not find words to describe the velocity. >> it's much worse now than it was. >> ever. >> i was so stunned when ari fleischer you know what, though, you had life and time and a "news week" to worry about. you condition have people second guessing every single task. >> there wasn't a wall around the white house. it was much more easy to go in an out. not to be in that you believe bubble. >> congressman tom cole, tom, it's always great talking to you. i love the haring what the president said. he is wide opened to the affordable care act.

i am sure you guys are happy to hear that, too. that's a change. >> people forget we have already given him, seven laws got through the senate and the president saved about $62 billion. so we have been putting ideas on the table. frankly the president hasn't put many idea on the table. this is his legislation. it's not worked well. i would expect it to come largely from him. again, we are happy to help where we can. >> where can you guys help? certainly, we heard it at the republican governor's association. i'm hearing people like bill crystal, the big thinkers in the republican party. we can't meet a party of no, obviously. we need to have an alternative to the president's plan. do we see paul ryan and others coming together with a comprehensive health care plan and response? >> actually. there is a couple good ones out there. tom price is a physician from georgia has got one.

the republican study committee has one, i'm very proud to be a co-sponsor of. it's a comprehensive plan. we put one on the table. people seem to forget this. when obama care was passed. so there is over 200 pieces of republican sponsored health care ledges lation out there. there is lots of ideas and again, we are willing to sit down and work with the president. the reality is this thing simply hasn't worked. millions of people are losing their ens. rates are going up. people are not satisfied with the product. again, i think this was the president's responsibility. this signature legislation. so you can't sort of blame the failure on us. we have been against what's failing from the very outset. >> i should remind everyone, we did try to negotiate with the republicans in 2009, 2010. they had to fill three requirements. you had everyone covered. improve the casualty of care.

control health care costs. there was never a proposal. as a matter of fact, i had a to my colleagues at the university of pennsylvania a republican from the american enterprise institute come and talk to my stuvenlts i didn't have a proposal. more competition. that's not a proposal. >> let the congressman respond. >> it's a proposal. it's simply not the proposal you wanted. look, we put a lot more faith on individual choice and markets. you want to micromanage it. our basic philosophy is that doesn't work very well government is not today at doing that i think honestly, this has been a colossal failure. >> the exchange actually is more than we thought. the exchange as a free market. you have foreign companies compete in ways that make sense. >> you are not running it very well.

>> let's go one at a time here. finish up. >> i think the exchange is a free market idea. it allows people to see the price of ens, to decide which one is for them. we have seen that in places like california. >> that has gimp driven down the provides of ens. >> actually, the price hasn't come down anywhere. the reality is under this system, you will have millions of winners. you will have tens of millions of losers as well. you are getting government into a marketplace it doesn't understand and manage well. that's why more people have lost insurance so far than have gotten ens under this system. i have no problem with exchanges and people compareing prices, honestly, let's be real. the united states government is an amazon. they don't do this very well. there is no reason to believe it will get better as we move forward. >> you were the only member to vote to reopen your government. i'm wondering why you were comfortable doing that within a

lot of your colleagues because of the base of their constituents were not. >> i have overwhelming support. i'm have a district and a state where the president didn't carry a single county. the reality is shutting down the government no. 1 is never going to work. there is important services. you must people out of work. it's a bad idea. no. 2. it's bad politics. it's sell ply silly. we have tried this a number of times. i don't know why we need every 17 years, republicans are like secadas, they need to try one more time. it doesn't work. >> tom, when 17 years ago secadas like myself got crushed. you would think, don't fly. it's unbelievable. so is it. >> that itself great to hear, you come from a conservative direct. you voted to reopen the government. you have heard mainly positive, a lot of positive things. have you been attacked by

bloggers and other people in the came ber? >> you certainly get that they're not from my voters, from the people i represent. i actually have such a positive response. most of the voters i talk to going to the airport, you know, you talk to your local chamber. they said, thank goodness somebody voted to do this. we're very much opposed to a lot of the president's policies and obama kaefr. we don't think this is an appropriate tactic. so we don't disagree theologically inside the republican party. we are all pretty united on these issues. this was a tactic that was never going to work. frankly, the minute we got off it, we started to heal, people focused back on the president and what wasn't working. that's much better politics than trying to throw a temper tantrum and shut down the government. >> that makes sense.

governor tom cole, always good to see you. amen. i want to get your take on this, the commuter lean in new york where four people were killed, it should be getting back with a few middle eastern delays. union representatives for the train's engineer, william rockefeller are now saying he nodded off while driving when he came to, he apparently shut down the throttle and tried a braking technique. his attorney compared to accident happened to highway hypnosis. the drowsy feeling we sometimes feel staring at the leans while driving t. dreefr had apparently just recently started a new schedule. he had been years on the other schedule and this i think required waking up early. it changed his body clock. it raises questions when sleep patterns are shifted. and is that a serious reason excuse in professing something

like this? >> we certainly know sleep experts have done a lot of studies about the effects of sleep deprivation on judgment, on car accidents. there is a famous study from harvard where sleep experts studied inturns and residents driving home on call after the regular day shift. noticing more car accidents and more times within they nodded off at the wheel. so sleep's impact on our ability to concentrate is very much known and a lot of companies have hired sleep experts to try to make sure they got the right schedule for people and they're not moving them around drastically so they get tired. so i think that's something that has to be done. on the other hand, one has to wonder if that's the full excalls for going twice the speed at that point and whether there are other things that contributed where we're playing on our iphones or things leak

that one has to worry about the teams to beat. >> is there anyway of knowing that? these trains didn't have regular updates. >> they got it found. >> it's hard to both sleep and play with your iphone simultaneously. >> no. but it could slowly have gone faster and faster. >> it moneys that people on night shifts and early morning shifts, we need sleep experts to think through the proper way of scheduling people. i think that's certainly over the last 10 or 15 years come into industry. i think it needs to be system mat ec. >> if you've never worked a graveyard shift, you are not allowed to comment on this. >> it's very hard. >> it's extremely severe impact on the system and your ability to think, your about to do simple tasks. >> my god. look at tj. to do seimple taskles.

why do you think he has been screw ug up for ten years. >> explain the pro taken things he says. >> i know. >> all right. thank you very much. >> it's great to see you. >> john meacham. stay with us. up next the great debate. long before superpacks and online attack ads, they were clashing over politics and right -- >> these are our people. >> an author explains how those two laid the ground for a philosophical divide that rages on two centuries later. >> this is unbelievable. >> you are watching "morning joe." wreak.

. >> welcome book to "morning joe." here with us now founder and editor of national affairs.

he's out now with a new book. "the great debate." edmund burke, thomas payne and the birth of right and left. welcome to the show. >> thank you very having me. >> john meacham out of the question involving what war in. >> i think we're going to start with the french-indian war. i think maybe we will zip ahead to the french revolution. it's a little current if we go straight to the french revolution. >> agents that the next hour. the polynesian war. >> you worked on this, what was the impetus for the vote? >> this is a vote about the root of our group fookt of right and left in our politics. the fact that we have a broadly conservative party and aggressive party. they're at each other's throats over an incredibly wide range of subjects. we take for granted their

politics is defined by the common between them. what the right and left are about and it does that by looking to history. in some ways what was the first instance of the right and left dwiechltd an intense and fascinating ideological debate that grib e gripped the world at the end of the 18th century, it was defined by the american revolution, by this debate, this tension 2009 progress and practice digs that has stayed with us ever since him one looks lou the eyes of two of the most prominent and interesting combatants. >> thomas payne, american liberalism comes from hills tradition. edward burke. >> conservatism in a sense. >> thomas payne is thought of one of the fathers of the modern left. he was an glesh immigrant to america. actually went to fran and played

an important part in their revolution or in making the case for it to the ghesh speaking world and really made a case for believeing that reason could lead to progress. he was a great believer in the promise of the enlighten. . edward burke, an english statesman, a member of parliament made the case that you can't just start over from scratch. you can't expect pure reason, abstract reason to lead you to the good society. you have as to start from where yoir society puts you. you have to think about what change means in practice and social life. how to make it livable. how to take your society as it is and improve it rather than think you can do better from scratch. >> there are conservatives, though, people who identify themselves as conservatives today who may relate temperamentally more than payne and burke and be offended by the fact that burke like russell kirk, like william f. buckley said you take the world as you

find it and you try to make it better. >> it's very true. one of the arguments of the book. it's an argument in book two, conservetism has to be conservative. it has to be temperamentally conservative to take the world as you find it and try to build on what works. conservatism amounts to making your society more and more like its best self rather than thinking you can start from scratch in the abstract and apply pure principal directly to politics. >> pete weiner said some wonderful things about the book. i thought it was fascinating. william f. buckley who at the beginning of the iraq war supported it. by the end, in his mea culpa interview said we thought we were going to remake an entire region hand the ended up not being realistic at all, therefore, it ended up not being conservative at all. we republicans have not acted in

the tradition have we over the past 12, 13 years? >> well, it's certainly been a members. i think the failures republicans confronted come a lot of time when they fail to act as conservatives. when they fail to take account of the fact that you can't president-elect every event weight. you have to be careful in the steps you make and think about how they act the world as it is. >> how do you, president reagan before he was president reagan even before he was governor loved the line from payne, we have in our power to gen the world over again. >> the least conservative thing by anyone. he used it all the time. >> but it's not actually true. he didn't actually govern that way. >> when iraqen used that lean, he used it to call the american people to do big things again. he didn't use it in the way payne, himself did, we can throw away our history, our regime and start over from scratch on the right principals. reagan used it to say, we've led

ourselves sad. we haven't been acting as americans and we can do these great big things again. i think he had in mind something different. payne was an important player and conservatives in america have always had the challenge of being conservatives in a society founded in revolution. that's a complicated challenge. >> pete weiner writes this in the commentary. many on the right speak about liberty as an unqualified good with hardly if ever a mention of the selfish liberty and the role politics plays in reenforcing our common bond and the role the state plays in reenforcing the common good. there is a fuller and richer conservative tradition as embodied by burke that is worth reclaiming. >> you know, burke had a rule for himself, to not say liberty without saying order. to not say rights without saying obligations. but you have to think of the way these things were balanced out. so he was a friend of the fre

society as we know it. but he thought it had to be balanced. >> that it had to be as that wonderful quote says that it has to be constraend and balanced by the need for order, the node for taking the world's it is. >> you are a big health care specialest, too. that's something you think a lot about, right? burke and payne, obama, obama care. is obama care a burkian approach to health care or a radical approach to health care? let's start with that? one of the big differences between burke and payne was a difference about what kind of knowledge is available to us in solving social problems. payne thought politics to a certain extent should by a plead to technical knowledge. and that one of the purposes of government was to allow for applied expertise to address social problems.

block thought social knowledge could only exist in a form and apply it through institutions that apply broad

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>> welcome back to "morning joe." with us now is katrina. she is with us with her new being. also the teacher featured in the book michael goodwin. i don't know what's better about you. >> probably the former. >> exactly. >> while meaning the latter. >> fine. >> what is star up to these

days? >> oh, just business. >> i was telling michael, i'm so sorry the roosevelt task book. she is very disappointed. >> she's not an enthusiast ec woman. she is out talking about this. >> isn't she doming to nashville? >> like where you been? december 12th. >> get ready for a great crowd. really really great people. okay. katrina, give us the back story behind this book in terms of what you wanted to do with it and why you felt you needed to. >> well, i think we suspend a lot of time talking about the weaknesses and failures of our education system. clearly we're in a crisis moment. what i felt wasn't taking place in our pub leg conversation as much as what we're doing right and where there are success stories and there are wonderful success stories all over the country. so the aim and the purpose of the book was really to invite leaders into the class roovps of teachers doing incredible work

that are achieving in spite of systemic issues and problems and that are really finding innovative and unique solutions to you beubiquetous problems. >> they all stand out, obviously. >> jason chung is a teacher in philadelphia who is in his fourth year of teaching and he entered the profession. that was his first job and he was told that he would have $100 for his entire annual budget to teach at seven different schools percussion. and his solution was not to climb into bed, pull the covers over his head and not come out. his solution was to go to home depot and boy paint buckets, which he then taught his students to drum only.

so he's created an entire army of bucket drummers in philadelphia. it's become a real sensation. obama actually praised him publicly. arnie duncan invited him to the white house to find out more about his program. there is 14 other teachers in this book doing equally enno rate issive resourceful work. >> one is michael good wynn, teaches in condoucord, massachusetts. it includes kids from boston that were bussed out to concord high school every morning. >> yep. >> you have developed something called a school within a school program. how does it work and how did you come up with the idea? >> yeah, sure. so the program rivers and revolutions. it is very much a school in a school. in that students that decide to come in, leave the mane stream curriculum. they come and live with us. it is fully integrated. >> when you say lived with us. >> that's a good question. not all the every day. meaning that is where they're

spending their entire school day for the semester in this program. so instead of having their typical experience of being in glesh class, the bell rings, math, the bell wynn rings, which shows to fragment the experience and fragment their understanding of the world and only in i think in a lot of ways. they're using differences by which to view the world. they use literature, mathematic scene, view one phenomenon at a time. one sense of questions. it's interdisciplinenary. it's experiential. we applied for a fund. they provided us with resources to be able to when we're studying perspective, go to the top of the prudential building. look down on the karlsson river to think different by the riverside. it's a program that works, is working for in different ways. i think a lot of different types of student. we have a diverse classroom in

all manner of ways. i think most strikingly, we have students there with severe learning disabilities. we have students flying high with straight a of kids in the middle and they all feel they can find success in this exploratory way with their own voice. >> i want to go to class. that doesn't give me hives like classes usually do. >> what is the lesson here? what's the common theme and what can we learn as we try to look at the as r systems across the country? >> my hope is that each of these teacher stories is a view into how you can succeed in all kinds of different environments. it's important to note that they are different and have different

styles. they share a lot of common qualities. they are all responding to their environment. i think that's the key thing i took away. there is no single answer to how to fix our system. we really need to find a solution that allows creativity and allows both individual teachers and administrations and districts to find their own solutions. >> to do what they do best and deal with what they have. >> it's different in inner cities than in rural communities and for different age groups. >> did you get any push back when you wanted to develop this? >> the school administration was supportive and i ran this as a pilot program with the intention of opening my own school and the administration approached me and said would you consider opening

up here? there was an idea of existing within the confines and there was something exciting about that model. i am working on a teaching institute that would be built around the same curriculum for students between pittsburgh and boston to come on out and work not only with other students, but teachers and administrators to understand the link between teaching and learning. >> i love it. fantastic. heroes in the classroom. you just met one. katrina freed, thank you very much for doing this. thank you as well. say hi to mom. you are watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. [ lane ] do you ever feel like you're growing old

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good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast and 5:00 on the west coast. we have john heilman and mike barnacle. >> this guy is asleep or in a daze or something. >> terrible. >> there is an interesting angle too. we will start with detroit, but we will talk about the train derailment in a moment. there was the shift change after working years on one shift was put on a different shift and left at a different time in the morning and it might have played

a in this. there so many questions and an impact on shift workers in terms of body clocks and how important that is to consider when you are making changes. >> another reason why if you have a system end whether it slows you down. >> it's insane. >> or whether it's error of the person. >> some trains have the alarm when is they can't get a reaction from the engineer. >> it has been available for more than a few years. >> it seems kind of obvious. >> i had one of those. >> okay. let's start with detroit. the motor city has gone bust. they gave the green light to file for chapter 9 bankruptcy protection ruling that it is unable to pay $18 billion in debts. there is a march 1st deadline to be filed. the emergency manager is expected to have a 50 draft next

month. the outgoing mayor dave bing said it's a chance to put the city on a new course. >> we are going to have to fight and the fight has to be together. if we have a future as far as our children and grandchildren, we have to fix the problem now. we can't continue to kick the can down the road and not make tough decisions. >> the tough decision are the city pensions and the judge ruled billions could be cut even though michigan's constitution prohibits cuts to pensions. the largest employee union filed an appeal and the ruling could have implications for retirees already struggling to make ends meet. >> we have an american dream that if you work long and did the right thing, you would end up being able to live comfortably. what he has done now, i don't know how our money is after

january. it's sitting around and making up my mind whether to take my medicine or eat. what do they want me to do now? >> detroit on the largest public bankruptcy in u.s. history. >> can we point out to people that there is something tragically sad and obscene about that ruling where generations of incompetent public people have driven that city to bankruptcy and people are paying the ultimate price are public employees who sign and agreed to deal who is now can be taken away. >> we are not talking a lot of money. 1800 to $2,000 a month in pension and that will be stripped or reduced. it's awful. >> it's a big ruling. pensions are protected under the state constitution, but what this job said is they are not

protected under bankruptcy. as mike said, if you become a cop or a firefighter or a sanitation worker, you enter into a deal and a dangerous job with an understanding that you will be taken care of. there were big problems and you have to do something and those people should not be hurt by it. >> illinois tackled their issue hours after the ruling. they narrowly passed reforms that include raising retirement and changes to cost of living increases. they will eliminate a $100 billion shortfall. pat quinn will sign the issue. labor unions and other opponents are vowing to fight the overhaul. any changes prohibit reducing benefits. detroit could go back 15 to 20

years and do the things with their pensions, if the politicians had the guts to do what chris christie did in new jersey and scott walker did in wisconsin and now illinois and people go out and scream and yell and i understand they want to get the best deal and they should negotiate for the best deal, but you asked where this problem came from. the problem came from unions that pushed politicians. the exchange for votes and money. there people now and jerry brown i think in california from what i understand is being really responsible with pensions too. governors of both parties are having to make tough choices that politicians did not makeover the past 20 or 30

years. >> there is no doubt that the system has been and continues to be flawed and corrupt as well as a horrific conflict of interest. elected politicians received campaign contributions and they are sitting across the table negotiating for higher pension benefits. that is conflict that has to be avoided and it hasn't been. >> making promises they can't keep. >> that's what governor christie is saying. we are negotiating with ourselves. the job of the union is to get as much as it can. that's why it's there. the job with the other side is to do what's best for the city and that wasn't the case here. >> we will go to the train derailment. the commuter line where four people were killed in a train wreck over the weekend. it should be getting back to normal this morning. the union representative with the train's emergency now said he nodded off while driving when

he came to he shut down the throttle and tried an emergency braking technique. his attorney compared what happened to highway hypnosis. the drowsy feeling we get when we have been staring at dividing lines while driving. tom costello has more. >> we have a major train wreck. cars on the side. >> as the fire department released recordings, engineer william rockefeller was described as distraught. after years of working on the afternoon and evening shifts, he changed shifts two weeks ago with a new start time of 5:00 a.m. moments after the accident he told police he zoned out. a friend and former coworker said he always has been dedicated to safety. >> i don't know how he is coping with the fact that he may have been responsible for the death of four people and 63 injured.

i can't imagine that. knowing the personality he is, that's going to weigh on him for the rest of his life. >> the engineer was in the second day of a five-daywork week. each day nine hours. the question is what he fatigued or sleep-deprived. >> there is every indication he would have time to get full sleep. >> 18 minutes after leaving the station, the train picked up tremendous speed. when it was supposed to slow down to 30 miles per hour, the train was moving at 82 miles per hour. at that point the engine power dropped to idle and engine slammed on the brakes, but it was too late. the train came to rest inches from the water. david wrangle said there is no steering a commuter train. the sole engineer controls speed and brakes and the monotony can pose a risk.

>> because of the repetition going-over and over that route, you sometimes have a tendency to be complacent and anesthetized. you can possibly zone out. >> there is no one else in the cab to help an engineer in trouble or asleep. >> nbc's tom costello with that report. one other thing to note is the "new york times" reports trains have what are called alerters. this is what is what we were talking about that set off an alarm. when they go off, the engineer has 15 seconds to respond. if the engineer doesn't respond in time, the brakes come on automatically. the train that derailed did not have that technology. >> in this daily news shot, is this from the camera inside? >> that's him on a stretcher afterwards. >> so sad.

>> my god. did you see the post? >> i just -- that's america at its worst. >> that's america at its worst, but the guys on the brooklyn bridge went to kill himself and she takes a selfie to say look at the dude on the brooklyn bridge ask i'm going to instagram this. the cops saved the guy. >> incredible work by the nypd. >> that's a real goal. >> probably better than a selfie. >> do you think she knew what was happening? >> i want to believe that this was just an optical illusion. let's see if there is an article. >> there is one inside. >> it's not conclusive. they have a nice recap of other horrifying selfies.

>> all right. the reboot of obama care continues as the president talks about the economic benefits of this law in washington, d.c. yesterday he defended the affordable care act and suggested if the republicans have better ideas they should bring them to the table. >> the bottom line is this law is working and will work into the future. we are just getting started with the exchanges. just getting started with the market places. we are not going to walk away from it. if i have to fight another three years to make sure the law works, that's what i'll do. i will work with anybody to implement and improve this law effectively. you got good ideas, bring them to me. let's go. but we are not repealing it as long as i'm president. i want everybody to know that. >> if what the president just

said is true, then that's a marked change from the first time it went through. republicans had scores of amendments that harry reid kill and never let them discuss it on the floor and never got a vote on the floor. if the president now wants to actually work with republicans as well as democrats on the health care bill, who knows. maybe we can move forward and develop comprehensive reform that works for all americans. >> hhs officials announced a surge of web traffic saying more than a million people visit the site on monday. former president clinton spoke about the law yesterday. saying the legacy will not be impacted as long as the flaws are fixed. >> if the computer problems are fixed and it's up and running in the next several weeks, i think

that the damage will be minimal. when president bush passed a bill to provide drug coverage to senior citizens under the medicare program, it was more unpopular when it was passed and there were lots of problems in the beginning with the computers. if it's fixed, i think that's right. we need to see if this can be worked through. if it's worked through within four or five months, people will be talking about something differently and no one will want to repeal this law. they want it to work. >> you guys remember in 2 then 4 when medicare part d passed we had the same coverage and all because it was so bad and it was george bush who had the press conferences and -- wait. that didn't happen. that's right. democrats are making that up. >> the only thing with medicare

part d is who was going to pay for it. >> the republicans that passed a $7 trillion drug plan without a single dime along with the democrats, they held the vote open for like three weeks and bribed nick smith to switch his vote. that's all i remember. all of this nonsense, they don't have to make stories up. i know some of them like to do that, but medicare part d was just as bad. >> you sound like bill clinton. >> it wasn't. stop insuling us. >> the president will be doing a town hall with chris matthews, live i believe at american university tomorrow. >> that's going to be great. >> the setting is interesting because obviously the president is appealing to those young people who they want signed up

for it. they need them. this is going to be great. >> that's exciting with chris matthews and all of his viewers. >> chris is on a roll. >> since they moved that show, they used to have it at 2:00, 4:30 and 7:00. >> now it's on fire. ease on fire. >> 245i did it every night. >> vintage matthews. get it every night at 7:00. >> he's kicking it old school. >> i sit on the edge of my seed. >> coming up on "morning joe," to drop the letters ma from his twitter handle and now new signs that former senator scott brown may be shedding his massachusetts ties to lineup a senate bid in the neighboring state? mike allen has that in the political playbook. that's interesting. first bill karens. >> you guys are so excited about this tree.

this will be the 81st time this tree will be lit up. this is duluth, min. the snow is blowing sideways and the wind chill is down to the single digits and negative numbers. denver too. fluffier too. wind chill is minus 10. the winds less. stay off the roads if you can. wind chill at minus 9. the cold air will head south. we will get frigid. it's very cold through the rockies. that air will spill down to vegas, dallas, oklahoma city and all the way through the midwest. the forecast is not going to take the east coast too badly. the fog from should go to st. louis. the bottom line is the travel right now, the rockies and the northern plains almost impossible. we will light the tree up with savannah guthrie and al roker at

8:00 this evening. many musical acts this evening. hope you can see it then. you are watching "morning joe." people don't have to think about where their electricity comes from. they flip the switch-- and the light comes on. it's our job to make sure that it does. using natural gas this power plant can produce enough energy for about 600,000 homes.

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>> time to take a look at the morning papers. joe biden is in chine trying to smooth over growing tensions. about an hour ago he held a meeting with china's president. the trip was supposed to focus on trade, but that has been

overshadowed since china expanded airspace into japan. >> from a parade of papers, the oddo industry is on sale for the best sales year since 2007. experts have seen 16 million vehicles up from 15 million in october. chrysler is leading the pack. sales are up 16%. >> news week announced they will return to print early next year after ending punication last year. they are struggling to adjust to the digital age and was converted to an online publication by the prior owner, the daily beast. they performed in august with plans to rely on subscriptions and hopes to expand circulation to 100,000 readers back. >> sales for sony's playstation 4 topped $2 million worldwide after three weeks on the market

in north america. the gaming console is selling in 32 other countries and will hit the shelves in japan. on the first day alone, they sold more than one million units making it the fastest selling console ever. >> billy joel and madison square garden announced that the music icon will play a series of monthly concerts at venue. the vegas style residency that kicks off will be the first for the garden and joel. the first four shows are sold out. joel played at the garden a total of 46 times dating back to 1978. >> i'm getting a lot of credit here for how good i'm supposed to be, but a good deal is from the audience that comes to the garden. they are a great audience. if you have a great audience, you usually give a better show.

>> that's going to be exciting. time for politico. >> let's go to d.c. the chief correspondent has a look at the play back. we are discussing a piece that you have up on your site. scott brown the former senator is ratching up the speck ulthz over interest in in the senate seats. he writes regardless of the race. >> republicans think it looks like a juicy race. bob smith who was from new hampshire looking back from florida. they want to run against the democrat and cot brown is making all the moves. his twitter handle changed from scott brown ma to send scott

brown. he is jumping on the republicans and obama care issue pointing out ten of the 26 reports would not be available on the exchange that is in that state. he has that dinner coming up and people say well, he is just trying to ramp up speculation and if that's what it's for, he's going through a lot of trouble. >> we will talk to the president of columbia. juan manuel santos. he and president obama may agree on a lot of issues until they start talking about soccer. he joins us next when "morning joe" comes right back. blap before using her new bank of america credit card, which rewards her for responsibly managing her card balance.

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>> welcome back to "morning joe." a beautiful morning in washington. joining us from washington, d.c. fresh off his meeting with president obama yesterday, the president of columbia. juan manuel santos. thank you very much for being on the show with us this morning. >> thank you, mika for having me and giving me this opportunity.

>> can you tell us the out come of the meeting and what prospects lie ahead? >> columbia and the u.s. had a good relationship for a long time, but this time it's very different from the past. columbia evolved thanks to what i consider the most successful bipartisan initiative launched. columbia is a strategic ally of the u.s. and we talked with president obama about a new cooperation. now it's not only drugs and how to combat violence and terrorism, but also how to work together helping other countries, central america and the caribbean islands. the problems we had in the past. we learned and now we are using

knowledge to help them. we disagreed on one fundamental issue. >> this is by the way a very important fundamental issue to disagree with. i hear you say, mika, that everything is going so swimmingly well and yet this is the most penitentiary thing for the good people of columbia and many of us in america. what is that issue. >> i hope you two are in synch. >> that is who is going to win in the world cup. the u.s. team or the columbian team. i told president obama i hope we don't win in the first round. we have to, i'm sorry to say, eliminate the u.s. >> congratulations on qualifying. let's talk about the peace

talks. they have caused so much havoc in your society and your culture. the u.s. has been involved in some peace talks. where are we moving? anything positive? >> we are advancing in the correct direction. we have advanced more than any other and i am today more optimistic than a year ago. the first time conditions are there and the sshs are correct. i hope that if we persevere, we will end this conflict that for 50 years have affected in a tremendous way, not only the country, but region. this would be a game changer. it would be very, very important.

i am insisting in order to get that objective. in the arena. >> the president went back to the trade agreement. in terms of numbers your country, what companies are starting to lock at your country that may probably not have looked at the country before this agreement? >> columbia becoming the darling of the foreign investment, we had record foreign investment for the last three years and we have the highest investment rate of any economy in latin america that allowed us to become the country who created more jobs and more formal employment in all latin america in the last years. we are attracting more investment. the free trade agreement is a fundamental aspect of this new

policy and this proactive policy. we are seeing new companies and technology and biotechnology. we are the richest country in biodiversity on the whole planet. there is a lot of interest from the new investments and we have connected the country with fiber optic and broadband and we need to see how we use it. today we are signing with microsoft and facebook and doing aboutile are very interested. there a lot of opportunities from that side of the investment sneftd traditional oil and minerals and all that sort. >> the tax sector in columbia. >> terrorism is a global problem as opposed to a regional problem. what specifically can columbia do working in conjunction with the united states to condition

combatting global terror? >> we have learn and paid a very high cost in our war against terror and against drug trafficking. we have know how. intelligence and we have probably the best trade police and elite forces in all of latin america. we are training more than 17,000 soldiers or policemen from central america from mexico. from other areas. we can continue to work together. terrorism, you might terrorism with different instruments. one of them is intelligence. that is a key issue. >> president juan manuel santos, thank you very much. >> number four, the number four worst opportunity they are ranked fourth on the planet. >> that are is exciting.

all right. i hope we don't get columbia. >> in the next round. >> up next, making things happen. that's giving a big boost. how they are bringing healthy eating and jobs to communities across the east coast. we'll be right back. [ imitating car engine ]

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case. entrepreneur jonathan niemann, the cofounder and co-ceo of sweet greens. good to have you. tell us about what you guys are doing? >> investing great enterprises and how to get people to eat healthier. they started down in the food in the area. let's open something. it's now taken off. >> 22. >> 22. we had a $22 million investment and we think there is opportunity to create the chipotle in the category. more people recognize you are what you eat and you feed to do it in a fun way. that's a team that they have done a great job at. >> where did you get the idea? >> it's something we wanted the students in georgetown to know healy food and create a place you want to eat at. >> no healthy food in all of georgia. it's taken off.

where are the other restaurants? >> most are in washington, d.c. in new york and in boston. >> the knock of healthy eating is cost. the lower end families in this country have problems with obesity because they can't afford good food. how can it be a national thing that doesn't cater to the upper echelon or 1%. >> that's the goal is to make it approachable and accessible. it can't be for the upper echelon. it has to be fast and affordable and education is a huge part. people understanding why. >> that's a challenge for business. margins are important. >> restaurants are tough execution. you have to have the right real estate and the team and the margin. at the same time you have to focus on the trends. ask me 25 years ago, they are a company worth $60 billion, there is starbucks all over the place. chipotle is different locations.

they strike a cord with people and the cord that needs to be struck is around healthier choices. we talk about health care and this is a big focus. how we in costs. the best way is to get people to make healthier choices that. is a key part. it's not going to happen overnight, but in 10 to 15 years, there is a trend developing that said we have to make healthier choices in a way that is fun and convenient and affordable and that's what it is all about. >> you and two friends have this idea. how did you find him. how did you connect with him. >> i met steve and he called us three years ago and asked us to franchise. he took us out and said you need to franchise. absolutely not. we will not franchise.

we med steve. >> i lived in virginia and worked in downtown d.c. i was driving through georgetown by this first straund when it opened. that was interesting. i never would have thought six years later it would be this phenomenon. . >> talk about the investment. >> we believe the future of the country can innovate a lot of focus given the back to the technology. that's great innovation across the economy and the nation. we are not focused on the next social media company, but we are looking for things in washington, d.c. >> what are you looking at? we want $22 million from you two. how do we get it? >> you can change the world and the business model that drives

the trends in terms of consumer behavior. leverages and technology and does a disruptive business model. these are businesses that started to demonstrate promise and have the potential to be bigger. >> these decisions, how much of it for you, how much do you operate on gut and how much do you operate on an lytics looking at the numbers? >> both. there is something about that idea that captivateses and you that's a big idea and a battle. >> sometimes it's simple. you drive by and the first time i saw yahoo, i can type that in? same thing with aol. how important is it to look at it and say it's interesting. >> the idea is important. you have to have a great team behind it and focus on the execution. my favorite thomas edison who used to say vision without

execution is hallucination. you have to execute it. that's what don and the team have done so well. >> what was the most important thing that you learned from him or are still learning from him in terms of the growth in business? >> i can't say much. >> we know each other for almost a year and it's the important of people. really investing people in creating a great culture. that's one of the biggest focuses. focusing in on this. >> you are focused on this right now, but a lot of people focus on the technology side. it's booming again. we do these stories about the drones and the google guys. they have out there stuff. we are waiting to see what spaghetti sticks to the wall. in terms of google or apple or amazon, how do you view it from where you sit now, i'm not asking to you pick winners. >> they are great companies and they're executing when you have the scale is hard to do.

the place to watch is the next generation of companies that have the potential to be the next google. >> like twitter? are. >> twitter has done a great job in executing, about you a lot of them are emerging. there is probably too much focus on technology and silicon valley. the innovations that are driving the economy will drive our growth and really happening everywhere. >> give us an example that you invested in outside of ip. >> last time i was on we invested lolly lolly doodle, the next generation shopping company that is doing jump in time manufacturing in north carolina where everyone thought you can't do manufacturing in north carolina. we have a company called big commerce that is focused on making it every main street retailer being able to per 'tis pate in the market place. there a lot of ideas. we are trying to champion those. some is kreaing more momentum and almost the art of the

possible. how do you take the sweet cream and it can revolutionize how we eat and the next chipotle and starbucks. >> you are talking about the base and cutting edge. let's apply what you know and what you learned through the years to what's happening in washington, d.c., the health care roll out. what went wrong and how do we iffics it it? >> the website was not ready. everybody acknowledges that and they are working hard over the last month or six weeks. seemed like it's getting a lot better. out of curiosity, it seems like they didn't get it right, but the place to focus on that is not what it is. the websites have a problem, but where is it a year or two or five or ten years from now. clearly there is major glitches with the initial and it creates and slowed the momentum and hurt us on the effort to try to get

immigration passed. suddenly the focus on washington which i was hoping would be on passing reform in the house was more focused on the health care issues. hopefully we will be able to get past it and get back to the focus on how we win the battle and immigration reform. >> let's hope so. thank you so much. i appreciate you making another big announcement. >> hope you will adopt sweet cream in your diets. >> we will. i need to borrow some money. be sure to check out the afternoon mojo link and learn more about the innovators making things happen. the best of late night including the unusual appearance by mark halpern. >> highly unusual and strange. thrusters at 30%! i can't get her to warp.

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>> i'm excited. we got a look at one of mcdonald's's treasured meats.

>> they say ignorance is bliss. that may apply to the mcdonald's's rib sandwich. a photo taken of a mcdonald's employee of a mcrib. >> sweet jesus. is there no shame? >> mcdonald's said the patty is formed in the shape of traditional ribs. they flash freeze the meat before sending it out to the restaurants. that's gross. >> maybe you are the who is gross, mika. there is nothing wrong with a mcrib just because it appears to be made out of sickly et. i have been a firm believer that the best food raises more questions than it answers. if anything, this photo makes me want this thing even more. it only adds to the great american mystery that is the mcrib. for decades the elusive rib appeared and disappeared on

mennmen menus and never knows what brings it out of hiding. is it a surplus of slaughter house floor scrapings? >> that's interesting. i'm very insulted by what he said about you. >> thank you. >> heilman had been going to the great things, promoting double down and charlie rose and all the great shows. the "morning joe." >> prestigious. >> they did it again last night. >> the coauthor of double down game change about the last president election mark halpern. have you ever caught a buzz on tv before? >> just once and not quite like this. they going to make a movie about this? >> they are looking for the person who can play mitt romney. >> interesting. by the way, we got a tweet from

it's good and said mark hal earn is on watch what happens live. my brian exploded in a good way. >> he does seem drunk. >> no, no. i just thought there was something about mark halpern behind a bar. in front of a bar, but not behind. >> that are shows him interesting. >> how fun is that? >> he's adorable. i would be scared. >> no, you should go on. >> we should be scared to go on. >> you don't think i should do it? i don't think he would ask me. >> sure he would. i think it will work well. let's do it. >> okay. >> do you have any mixologist skills? >> no, i have my own personal mixologist.

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♪ by the end of december, we'll be delivering ♪ ♪ through 12 blizzards blowing ♪ 8 front yards blinding ♪ 6 snowballs flying ♪ 5 packages addressed by toddlers ♪ ♪ that's a q ♪ 4 lightning bolts ♪ 3 creepy gnomes ♪ 2 angry geese ♪ and a giant blow-up snowman ♪ that kind of freaks me out [ beep ] [ female announcer ] no one delivers the holidays like the u.s. postal service. priority mail flat rate is more reliable than ever. and with improved tracking up to 11 scans, you can even watch us get it there. ♪ >> back to "morning joe" and time to talk about what we learned. let's go to the truly disturbing sight. louie fern. this tree drinks 90 gallons of water a day and there over 40,000 led lights on the tree.

>> it's a star. >> swarovski crystal star on the top. i will have an incredible time at the tree lighting. i will give you a preview right here. i will pop champagne right here. okay. oops. >> that's -- >> we will use that clip when he picks up the emmy. >> you know what that reminds me of? the burt reynolds character in boogie knights. right before the shooting in the bedroom. it's like he is living that scene out in 2013. thank you so much. what have you learned? >> i want to thank jackie kelly for the women of worth awards last night and it was amazing. also i love it. >> fantastic. >> mika's chocolate shoes are really pretty good. >> mike?

>> calm down about ellsbury. >> come on. >> seriously. calm down. >> save that monstat. >> less than 50 million people, columbia has the fourth bet soccer team. >> it's time for "morning joe," but chuck todd and special guest ron burgundy. >> what's wrong with him? as repeal and replace turned into replace and repeal after years of quotes and votes to undo the president's healing care law, they have to figure out what to do as the base meets a new reality. hillary clinton's shadow campaign marches on, why is bill clinton talking about one of his most famous campaign quotes from 1992. it's not it's the economy,